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Ryzen 3600 build mainboard question  

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Irata
(@irata)
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December 30, 2019 14:05  

So, my kid is pestering me to build a new PC (not that I need much convincing). Currently we have an HP Elitedesk 705 system (AMD A8-6500B, SSD, 16 GB RAM (2x8) sporting a 4 GB Radeon RX 550). System works fine  and I got it very cheap, but my kid likes to game and would also like to record / stream and it's more of a "do one thing at a time" system.

Plus, my Ryzen 2500u Notebook already feels a lot snappier and smoother.

I think even the Ryzen 3000G would be a noticeable upgrade but I decided on the following after checking prices here in Germany:

CPU: Ryzen 3600 - decided for the entry level Ryzen 3000 series.

RAM: 32GB G.Skill RipJaws V schwarz DDR4-3200 (2x16)

GPU: I will most likely go for an RX 5700 (non-XT), either Sapphire or Powercolor. Plan is to upgrade it with something bigger in a year or so.

I am still very undecided on the mainboard. The plan is to keep the system for a long time, so I would probably upgrade to a 3900X or 3950X once they are EOL and then afterwards a Ryzen 4000 series CPU.

The mainboard that I would really want / love to get is the MSI X570 Creation (sounds nice and has tons of USB ports).

But, it's not exactly on the cheap side, even for X570 boards, so the alternatives I am looking at are:

- An MSI 450 Max board for around €100 - should be good enough for now but not sure how it will do in the future and it does not have too many USB ports.

- A Taichi X470 for €200. This seems like a solid board with a good build quality and VRM / power circuitry, but it has no PCIe 4

- Another X570 board in the €200-300 range,  preferrably with a fan that sits idle when not needed and enough USB ports. I do not care about LED or Wifi but it should have a good build quality and power circuitry (including cooling).

Oh: Overclocking is not my thing. Do not really care. But I do value stability and reliability.

Any suggestions would be greatly welcome.


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Irata
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December 31, 2019 13:25  

One more thing: While I do not think PCIe 4 will make much of a difference at the beginning - beside X570 offering twice the bandwith between the CPU and chipset - I feel that I would potentially regret not going with X570 in the future.

I am still hoping that I would get at least the 20 PCIe 4 lanes direct from the CPU with a B550 mainboard (why wouldn't I since these lanes are not going through the chip set), but I do not know when it will be released.


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Olle P
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January 3, 2020 10:35  

First the CPU:
If the objective is to game while streaming a video of said game I'd say you need at least a Ryzen 7, and a Ryzen 9 is the go-to option. (Otherwise the stream will be very choppy.)
Gaming while recording can probably be done nicely with a Ryzen 5, but I'm not 100% sure.

Then for the motherboard:
If you can wait a little while it might be worth to know when the B550 will be out. I expect it to be at least announced (with a launch date) on CES next week.
I'm not sure why you'd need all the bells and whistles of an X570:
* The VRMs are only relevant for heavy overclocking of the higher end CPUs. The latest Ryzens don't need overclocking in the first place.
* That many gen 4 PCIe-lanes are irrelevant for the next few years, unless you plan to use some very high end SSD(s).
* If you need more USB ports you can always use a hub and/or expansion card.

I need a new motherboard myself to replace my faulty B350 (that can only run on default BIOS settings). I will wait to learn more about the B550 and then decide what to opt for. X570 is still too expensive for me.


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Irata
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January 3, 2020 16:50  

Thanks for your reply Olle (are you Swedish, btw ?).

 

Since I told my kid he'd be able to play and stream  with the new PC, I don't want to spend a lot of money on a new PC just to disappoint him.

Following your advice, I changed to CPU to a Ryzen 3900X. Luckily, they are now readily available and cheaper (EUR 498).

As for the mainboard, I'll definitely wait for B550 - the current alternatives are either too expensive or not forward looking enough.

I am sure B550 boards will have at least the 20 lanes connected directly to the CPU as PCIe 4 (as they do not go though the chipset). The rest, I do not care too much about.

The reason why I want at least some PCIe 4 slots (and good power circuitry on the board) is future proofing. For the power circuitry, I figured that quality components that are not used near their limit will last longer.

Let's see what AMD and the board partners announce at CES. A good B550 board in the 150ish range would be nice.


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Olle P
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January 8, 2020 08:30  

Yes, I'm Swedish.

CES and AMD's keynote has come, but nothing official about the B550. ☹️ 
The latest rumors I've found are from september/october.

One (unconfirmed) detail is that B550 won't support PCIe4, but only PCIe3!

I don't believe in "future proofing" a motherboard any more, beyond planned upgrades. I used to think like you earlier, but now after two decades with incremental upgrades of my own computer I've realised that you will pay extra to get "futuristic" features that you'll never use (to their capacity) (1) while still getting stuck with other features that get obsolete and will prevent upgrades (2).

You won't run any risk of getting close to the limits of the power regulators unless the computer is used for distributed computing 24/7, loading the CPU to the hilt. The motherboard will be out of commission long before power regulation will become an issue.

(1) A prime example is when I got a Z68 motherboard just to get LucidLogix Virtu which was a feature that would let the computer use the IGP and (discrete) GPU mixed and/or on their own based on need and workload. Seemed really nice to me! Light office work: Use the IGP to provide picture and save power. Heavy 3D gaming: Use the IGP for physics calculations.
As it turned out it required optimization for each program, and was only available for a select few that I've never used.

On top of that the motherboard typically has more PCIe slots and SATA connectors than I'll ever use...

Now I'd say that PCIe4 is such a feature that in practice won't make much practical difference over PCIe3 unless you use very high end SSD. (Just like USB3 is "nice to have" while most of my peripherals still use only USB2.)

(2) Current CPU socket, chipset and other features can prevent reasonable upgrades a couple of years from now.
Early on I thought I'd be able to get a much faster CPU later on, but almost every time I've wanted a faster CPU a new motherboard has been required. (Expect, at best, to get 4th gen Ryzen compatibility with today's motherboards.)
I got into an even greater snag when new graphics cards switched from AGP to PCIe, so I had to replace most of the computer at once just to get a better graphics card.


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F7GOS
(@f7gos)
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Joined: 11 months ago
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February 14, 2020 06:19  
Posted by: @irata

So, my kid is pestering me to build a new PC (not that I need much convincing). Currently we have an HP Elitedesk 705 system (AMD A8-6500B, SSD, 16 GB RAM (2x8) sporting a 4 GB Radeon RX 550). System works fine  and I got it very cheap, but my kid likes to game and would also like to record / stream and it's more of a "do one thing at a time" system.

Plus, my Ryzen 2500u Notebook already feels a lot snappier and smoother.

I think even the Ryzen 3000G would be a noticeable upgrade but I decided on the following after checking prices here in Germany:

CPU: Ryzen 3600 - decided for the entry level Ryzen 3000 series.

RAM: 32GB G.Skill RipJaws V schwarz DDR4-3200 (2x16)

GPU: I will most likely go for an RX 5700 (non-XT), either Sapphire or Powercolor. Plan is to upgrade it with something bigger in a year or so.

I am still very undecided on the mainboard. The plan is to keep the system for a long time, so I would probably upgrade to a 3900X or 3950X once they are EOL and then afterwards a Ryzen 4000 series CPU.

The mainboard that I would really want / love to get is the MSI X570 Creation (sounds nice and has tons of USB ports).

But, it's not exactly on the cheap side, even for X570 boards, so the alternatives I am looking at are:

- An MSI 450 Max board for around €100 - should be good enough for now but not sure how it will do in the future and it does not have too many USB ports.

- A Taichi X470 for €200. This seems like a solid board with a good build quality and VRM / power circuitry, but it has no PCIe 4

- Another X570 board in the €200-300 range,  preferrably with a fan that sits idle when not needed and enough USB ports. I do not care about LED or Wifi but it should have a good build quality and power circuitry (including cooling).

Oh: Overclocking is not my thing. Do not really care. But I do value stability and reliability.

Any suggestions would be greatly welcome.

Keeping an eye on the future is always a funny game of what IS best for you now compared to what MIGHT be good for you later.

Ryzen 5 3600 is an amazing all rounder -  while the 1000 / 2000 series were great with a few compromises. The 3000 series not only increases performance from the 2000 series, but also irons out a lot of those compromises that were inherent to original Zen. Do you need more than a 3600 for gaming now? probably not. The Ryzen 5, 7 and 9 question is interesting but what you really need to answer is if a high core count setup is something your going to utilise or if its just something you want. 

And that's coming from someone that has a Ryzen 5 3600 system and a Ryzen 7 3700X system - reality is I dont notice a huge difference and to be honest, the 3600 is already on par with most production task as my launch 3.9GHz 1700 was.

Motherboard wise, i've had Ryzen 3000 on X370s, B450s and now an X570 for the 3700X....

Is X570 worth it? not really to be honest. There was the slightest difference when using an RX 5500 XT 4GB between the B450 and X570 test setups while there is no difference when using my RX 5700 XT but that's due to the Gen 4.0 x 8 setup of the RX 5500XT rather than the motherboard but really for an everyday rig theres nothing in it.

If all it's boiling down to is is USB ports, a good B450 with a add in card could be a good option. Since your not overclocking there are B450's which can tackle the 3950X fine. If there are features on X570 you will use now then go for that.

Basically.. build the best build that suits your needs now. spending more now for features you don't need now is never the best ideas.. and with B450 being solid and Ryzen 5 being so good.. it's honestly kinda hard to justify recommending anything else! 

Feel Free to check out the F7GOS youtube channel.
www.youtube.com/c/F7GOS


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Irata
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February 14, 2020 08:01  

Thanks for your reply @f7gos

My build (finished two weeks ago) ended up being somewhat different, but this was due to seeing the 2700X on offer for €149 including the game bundle. 

 

What I built was the following: 

 

CPU: Ryzen 7 2700X
Memory: 2x8 GB Crucial Ballistix Sport LT V2 DDR4-3200 CL 16
Mainboard: MSI B450 Tomahawk Max
SSD: 500 GB Samsung 970 Evo Plus NVMe
PSU: be quiet Straight Power 11 Modular 80+ Gold 750W
Case: be quiet Pure Base 600
Lite on DVD RW

Sapphire Radeon 5500XT 4GB GPU.

I have also added a second monitor and installed the 2.5 in 500 GB hdd from my old PC in the new one.

To be added in the next few weeks: Another 2x8GB RAM, a four port USB slot plate adapter connected to the mainboard.

 

The above set-up gave me the most bang for buck but it should still be upgradeable - chose the oversized quality PSU for this.

So far, the system performs really well. Installation went without issues (using Win 10 Pro) and it is all around smooth, especially coming from an older AMD APU system. The boxed cooler is doing its job, although it is noticeable when the CPU heats up, but nothing annoying. Will probably get a beQuiet HSF whenever I upgrade the CPU.

GPU wise, I opted for the 4GB 5500XT  (8GB was just too expensive, for that price I could as well have spent a little extra and went with a 1660 Super instead). 

The reason is two fold:

- I expect the upcoming GPU generation from both nVidia and AMD to be more interesting than what is currently around

- my monitor is only 1080P 60 hz (same for the second screen) and I did not want to get a new one at this time.

Kid is playing his games (Fortnite, Minecraft) while recording or streaming (using Radeon Relive) and so far not a single hitch and none of the reported "my PC is unusable" driver issues. I was a little bit worried but since neither the RX 550 I had in my old PC nor the 2500u's iGPU gave me any problems, I went ahead and am happy with my purchase so far.

Note: The system was installed from scratch, no tweaked settings and I am only using the latest WHQL drivers.

 


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F7GOS
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Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 63
February 25, 2020 07:51  

Glad you're getting on with the new build.. to be honest I have tried going back to Nvidia a couple of times over the last year but the software suite always promptly makes me slot back in a Radeon 😅

Feel Free to check out the F7GOS youtube channel.
www.youtube.com/c/F7GOS


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joshepmurray
(@joshepmurray)
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Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 2
March 3, 2020 02:03  

I'll suggest using MSI Z270 M5 ATX. I learnt about it from a Facebook article. then I"m using it for six months. So I'm sharing this information. It performs really good. It's a high-speed mainboard with high-level accuracy. It comes with 8GB RAM which causes a high-speed performance.


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Olle P
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Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 51
March 6, 2020 08:00  

@joshepmurray

1. That motherboard is for Intel gen 6 and 7 Core processors, not for AMD Ryzen.

2. No motherboard is sold with RAM by default.

3. Why a link to the FB main page?


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